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Andy Carey oral history interview, January 22, 1994
An interview of Andy Carey conducted by Larry Moffi in Newport Beach, California on January 22, 1964. Content of the interview include: Track 1 - On doing something with his photography; on different photos that he has taken; on Don Larsen dating Diana Dors; on Larsen appearing on the Ed Sullivan Show; Carey appearing on the Perry Como Show singing “You Gotta Have Heart; and appearing on the Arthur Murray Show as a dancer, (Luke Skowron?) and Whitey Ford were dancers and Carey won the contest and the writers said he was the best of a bad lot; going on the Ed Sullivan show (00:00:00 to 00:02:21) Track 2 - On being friends with Roy Sievers, playing together in charity games, golf tournaments, donating his time; playing the last game at the baseball fantasy camps; celebrity players serve as managers Brooks, Killebrew, Bauer, Skowron; the celebrities usually win, but the campers give them a run for their money; older guys lose their arm, but they don’t lose their swing; had to have knee surgery after one camp, so now he stands up rather than crouching down; he stays active so that he doesn’t throw his back out (00:02:21 to 00:06:38) Track 3 - On going to Japan in ’58; taking 16mm films; 2 million people lining the streets to see them; every game they played was a packed house, they only had one 1-1 tie; Ford tried to pick a guy off and the ball ricocheted off his head and then they called the game due to darkness; they were in Japan for a month, in Hawaii for two weeks; in Japan they went to Hiroshima, Sapporo, Osaka; some took their wives, he had his honeymoon with the Yankees baseball team; played in Hawaii at the Ernie Pyle Stadium, that was a real honeymoon, had parties every night; they got $2,000 U.S. money per man and $500 in U.S. money in Japanese yen; took two planes over there, it was quite an experience, wished he would have gone back (00:06:38 to 00:09:25) Track 4 - (Contains profanity) On off-season activities, never barnstormed, built a boat, and went into the securities business, never played ball in the off season; (George) Selkirk advised him against it; and he was a good manager so he took his advice; in Kansas City he was hitting about .240 and dropped a ball with bases loaded, they lost the game, and he chewed him out unmercifully for about an hour, and then Carey got mad so he went 18 for 22 and got his average up to .288; the next year in spring training Selkirk told him to assert himself, so he drew a line between third base and shortstop and (Phil) Rizzuto asked what was that, and Carey said that was his side, his territory; they never let him forget it (00:09:25 to 00:12:01) Track 5 - On Rizzuto going on road trips and getting a lot of free gifts; worst arm in baseball; could never get caught in a rundown, they could never maneuver fast enough to get him; a good bunter, good hitter, should be in the Hall of Fame, compared to Pee Wee Reese; on animosity among sportswriters; same problem with (Johnny) Mize and (Enos) Slaughter; possibly they will get in with the veteran’s committee; same with (Phil) Niekro; enjoying what he’s doing with the Legends of Sports and his photography; the insurance business allows him to do that; rents an office; more on photos; on going to Grossinger’s with Rocky Marciano and Bauer after games; on getting a silver tray commemorating Marciano’s title fight with Jersey Joe Walcott; Marciano not a big man but strong as a bull, only 5’10” but he was undefeated heavyweight champion of the world, beat Joe Lewis (00:12:01 to 00:18:32) Track 6 - On playing in the Polo Grounds, Yankee Stadium, more on photos; always diving for the ball; on the Yankees having a great defense, offense and pitching, having a balanced team; went on Jacques Cousteau’s ship the Calypso, saw the movie “Silent World” and went out and bought $200 worth of diving gear, hardest thing was the first breath underwater, opened up a whole new world, can’t dive now because he wears contacts and has ear problems; pictures with huge lobsters (00:18:32 to 00:20:55) Track 7 - (Contains profanity) On giving instruction during fantasy camps; Tommy Davis might do a hitting clinic, and Brooks might give some instruction; the guys want to have fun and play, they want war stories and sit in the dugout and hear the stories; Bauer and Skowron, (?) Sparky, all good, Tony Perez coming down; Earl Hesterberg at Nissan a big fan; camps are a lot of fun (00:20:55 to 00:22:10), Andy Carey played for the New York Yankees (1952-1960), Kansas City Athletics (1960-1961), Chicago White Sox (1961), and the Los Angeles Dodgers (1962)., Copyright is held by the National Baseball Hall of Fame
Augie Donatelli oral history interview, undated
Augie Donatelli was interviewed by Larry Gerlach at an unknown location on an unknown date for use in his book "The men in blue : conversations with umpires". Content of the interview include: Track 1 - (Profanity) (Tape picks up in the middle of conversation) In ’63 and ’64, in Chicago, one of the owners (John) Galbreath was there and they told him to tell (National League) president (Warren) Giles that they were standing firm for their rights; he and his assistant, Fred Flag (?), were against the formation of the Association; Giles told their attorney that he would meet with the umpires the following week; their demands included higher pension and higher salaries, with regular raises, now an umpire can make $40,000 a year plus $50 a day expenses and free travel; they had a hell of a time getting the League to agree to the demands, got some bad publicity, but it was necessary, Ernie Stewart got sacked, but they didn’t fire the umpires forming the association; they respected them, Donatelli never missed a day’s work, the next year they demoted him as crew chief, and he worked with Al Barlick again; they tripled their pension after forming the Association, and they started getting better salaries and regular raises $1,500 to $2,500 a year; American League didn’t join the Association until 5-6 years later, and they lagged behind in salaries and raises; American League president Joe Cronin kept the umpires from joining the Association, they fired 12 umpires, and two of them came to the Association and asked for them to back them; umpiring wasn’t too bad, especially when considering coal mining as an alternative (00:00:00 to 00:08:51) Track 2 - On being involved in strike in Pittsburgh; wanted more money, negotiating with the League presidents, wanted a raise for the playoffs and the World Series, and got the raise; worried about losing their jobs, worried about the fans, they pay everyone’s salaries; they got Minor League umpires to go up in place of the striking umpires; strike didn’t last long (00:08:51 to 00:10:22) Track 3 - On a West Coast lawsuit about age discrimination, 15 retired Major League umpires were involved, but the case was thrown out (00:10:22 to 00:11:20) Track 4 - On good ballplayers that didn’t heckle the umpires: Meusel or Musial (?); (Steve?) Garvey, (Gil?) Hodges, (Carl?) Furillo, fellows who played every day; some of the catchers and pitchers, even Don Newcombe; (Willie) Mays was a good guy; other good players, Bobby Wine, Ron Fairly (00:11:20 to 00:12:58) Track 5 - On great pitchers: (Warren?) Spahn, Robin Roberts, (Sandy) Koufax, (Bob?) Gibson; best reliever was Elroy Face; Hoyt Wilhelm was just about as good, but didn’t have the power; Face had a better year, won 20 games as a relief pitcher (phone rings) (00:12:58 to 00:13:50) Track 6 - On working as a goodwill representative for 17 years for National Distillers, but never drank whiskey, and then retired to Florida (00:13:50 to 00:14:17) Track 7 - On his last game, glad to go home, good 24-year career; missed the friends and the profession itself; liked baseball, was his number one game; missed the competitiveness; liked having a good salary; raised a family, two girls are registered nurses, one getting her masters; and two boys, one in the service and one in art school (00:14:17 to 00:15:42) Track 8 - On getting the third Al Summers award in 1972; umpires like to be recognized just like everyone else; umpires would like to be in the Hall of Fame (00:15:42 to 00:16:50) Track 9 - On being the plate umpire when Whitey Ford set his record, didn’t realize it until after the game; he also was behind the plate when (Don) Drysdale pitched the most shutouts, the other umpire (?) Wendelstedt said someone deliberately got hit; Ford went out in the 6th inning of that game, his arm stiffened up, he had a good lead and they wanted to rest him; he also was behind the plate when (Stan) Musial hit five home runs in a double-header; Nate Colbert was in the stands that day as a little kid, and then Donatelli was behind the plate when Colbert hit his five home runs and the most RBIs; also when Musial got his 3,000th base hit (00:16:50 to 00:18:41) Track 10 - (Profanity) On being remembered as a just, fair, honest to goodness umpire who called them as they were and as he saw them; feels like Bill Klem felt, he never missed a pitch or play; his greatest contribution to baseball was 24 years as an umpire, only missed one ballgame due to an infection; glad to have helped start the Umpire Association, glad to have Barlick and Conlan in his corner, it helped them and is helping the boys in there now; too bad they didn’t have longer to enjoy it; Lee Ballanfant only gets $300; as compared to Donatelli, who gets $13,000 a year as a pension; he never would have gotten that pension without the Association (tape runs out) (00:18:41 to 00:22:31), August "Augie" Donatelli was an Major League Baseball umpire that worked in the National League from 1950 to 1973., Copyright is held by the National Baseball Hall of Fame
Bill McKinley oral history interview, undated
An interview of Bill McKinley that was conducted by Larry Gerlach. Content of this interview include: Track 1 - (Continues in the middle of conversation) On three things you cannot do without or get out of a book, good eyesight, common sense and good judgment; judgment is handling the rule the way it should be handled; common sense is getting in and out of situations, and eyesight is seeing what is going on; can help someone learn to be an umpire, but without those three things, they won’t make it; in the Minor Leagues can’t really work with two umpires, he tried it after he had retired, he went to umpiring college ball for two or three years in Ohio State and Kent State University; then got involved with the American Amateur Baseball Congress in Akron, OH, dealing with kids from Little League through semi-pro, Connie Mack and Stan Musial Leagues; did their World Series down in NM; with to Ohio State one day for a double-header, and they only had two umpires because that was all they could afford, he told the coach he was too old to be running all over the field like an antelope, said he didn’t want people questioning his decisions (wife comes in) went over to St. Leo’s College in Florida to umpire for them, and they only could pay $17.50, so he stopped ; he just wanted something to do, he didn’t retire with a fabulous pension like they do today; he’s done a lot of speaking on the World Series; they relieved Lou Fonseca of the films; he worked for a bank, as a good will speaker for a few years (00:00:00 to 00:05:48) Track 2 - On the formation of the Umpires Association in 1964 in the National League; the American League didn’t handle it right; the National League umpires got a lawyer and got permission to put their demands to the owners; the American League did not; he and the senior men went to (Joe) Cronin’s office and had a secretary outline the program, and they took it to the owners; and he got a letter saying he was retired with no warning; all of the umpire crew chiefs went to Cronin’s office; and it didn’t go well; they let go three of them, Ed Hurley, Joe Paparella and McKinley; gave them the opportunity to bring up Emmett Ashford; he was let go because he was 55 years old; they didn’t want an organization, so they got rid of the senior, older men (tape glitches) (00:05:48 to 00:08:27) Track 3 - On Ed Hurley, ran the game in an ironclad fashion, a good umpire, didn’t take anything from anyone, knew the rules inside out; Cronin didn’t like him for trying to organize; not sure why they wanted to get rid of McKinley, except his age (00:08:27 to 00:09:20) Track 4 - On integration, Larry Doby the first in the League; he called him out on strikes the first time he came up to bat in Chicago; a real good guy; McKinley didn’t see any problems with integration, heard a lot of cracks from ballplayers, but they were just blowing off stream; one of the other umpires said he would quit if they brought up a colored player, but he didn’t (00:09:20 to 00:10:51) Track 5 - On outstanding players, one of the greatest players for an umpire to work with is the catcher, and Jim Hegan was one of the best catchers, had him all the time until he retired; he’s now a coach for the Tigers, the greatest mechanical catcher ever, too bad he didn’t hit better, great handler of the pitching staff, wouldn’t let them scream at the umpires so they could stay in the game; Hegan had Early Wynn, Bob Feller, Bob Lemon, Mike Garcia, and they were rough and tough, but Hegan kept them out there and in the game; Brooks Robinson was the greatest third baseman; greatest shortstop was Luis Aparicio; at second base, Joe Gordon, was late in his career but still great, at first base, Mickey Vernon; best (Joe) outfielders would be DiMaggio, (Ted) Williams and (Mickey) Mantle; best pitchers were Wynn as a right-hander, several left-handed pitchers, Whitey Ford, Billy Pierce; these pitchers could go 9 innings or more if necessary; Bob Lemon was great, would have been better if he wasn’t so wild; Wynn remembered a hitter and never gave him a pitch to hit; Tommy Byrne couldn’t throw the ball over the card table; Wynn was smart, but would hit his mother between the eyes if it meant winning the game (00:10:51 to 00:15:45) Track 6 - Williams never said a word to the umpires, if he got mad, he took it to the dugout; the only time he said anything to McKinley, he’d say “bear down Mac, you’re better than that;” one time Pierce pitched one to Williams down around his knees, and McKinley called it a strike, and Williams said “that wouldn’t have been a strike on Tom Thumb;” DiMaggio was the same, always great, never said a word; Robinson was great; Bobby Richardson was great at second base; George Kell was great; Nelson Fox was the toughest little bugger he ever saw (00:15:46 to 00:17:33) Track 7 - On good managers, Bucky Harris was great; (Joe) McCarthy was OK when he managed Boston; Stengel was a showboat, but wouldn’t curse you; Al Lopez wouldn’t abuse you but would talk you to death, had to warn him on the time; Freddie Hutchinson was no bargain, neither was Cal Richards; Jimmy Dykes was a needler; Pinky Higgins was a nice fellow; Steve O’Neill was too fat and had gout (00:17:33 to 00:19:19) Track 8 - On the great Yankees teams, they didn’t have all the money, they had the organization upstairs and the handling of ballplayers, George Weiss was probably the best general manager because of the results he got; he made trades because they could tell when a ballplayer was on his way down, they could get rid of a player and make a bundle from other teams; they got into the winning habit, and other players would come in, like Johnny Mize and Enos Slaughter, they got a second wind and became stars, Hank Borowy, same thing; and that bench had fellows on it that could take the regulars places every day (00:19:19 to 00:21:45) Track 9 - On the Red Sox being a good outfit under Higgins, the Cleveland Indians were good when they had the championship teams, before Frank Lane got hold of them; the St. Louis Browns even though they were down, they were a good bunch; the Detroit Tigers were good to work with; Washington under Bucky Harris were pretty good; the Philadelphia Athletics were different, didn’t have much discipline; the Yankees were pretty good, except for a few guys who were hard to umpire for, Yogi Berra, Mickey Mantle and Roger Maris; Berra was a pest and would get the crowd on you with his actions (00:21:45 to 00:23:31) Track 10 - On 1961 when Maris hit 61 home runs, Mantle had 54; pressure didn’t affect the umpires; McKinley wasn’t there when Maris broke it; he only umpired one no-hitter in his career, Bill Monbouquette beat Early Wynn in Chicago one night, easiest game he ever worked; he didn’t even know it was a no-hitter until the 8th inning; Maris had a lot of problems with the press, he was a surly guy; Mantle wasn’t easy, didn’t have enough education before he came up to the Major Leagues, came up too quick, couldn’t handle the press, at first Mantle was alright, then he got surly when the publicity began to pour in; on Whitey Ford cutting the ball, umpires weren’t aware of that, but they became aware of the catcher Elston Howard scraping the ball on the ground for him, roughing up one little spot; couldn’t catch them doing it, never caught him cutting the ball (00:23:31 to 00:27:23) Track 11 - On not being happy about his retirement, it came as such a surprise, just got a letter right after Christmas, thought he should have had a little more warning than that; (tape is turned off and restarted) (00:27:23 to 00:28:53) Track 12 - On his first Major League salary of $4000, plus $1500 expenses for the season; his last year was $15,000 after 20 years; missed out on the bigger pension, although he gets some pension; expenses got better, went up to $2500 then to $4000; the last World Series, he got $4000 for it, the All Star Game was on the house, they got nothing (00:28:53 to 00:30:29) Track 13 - On his 20 years as a Major League umpire, thinks you can’t fool anyone in professional baseball, his five years in the Minors and 20 years in the Majors are proof that he could do a good job as a professional umpire, he did the job very well and the salvation was doing something he wanted to do, make a living in professional baseball, something not a lot of people get to do (00:30:29 to 00:32:01), William "Bill" McKinley was a professional baseball umpire. He umped in the American League from 1946 to 1965 and in four World Series and three All-Star Games., Copyright is held by the National Baseball Hall of Fame

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