Burleigh Grimes interview
Date1983 July 30
DescriptionTwo audio cassettes featuring an interview with Burleigh Grimes conducted by Rod Roberts on the behalf of the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum on July 30, 1983 in Cooperstown, New York.
Object numberHF-1994-0001-029
Interviewer
Roberts, Rod
Interviewee
Grimes, Burleigh, 1893-1985
Subject
Grimes, Burleigh, 1893-1985
Classificationsaudio/visual materials
Library Call NumberCTA 835
Library Call NumberCTA 836
Collection NumberBA RMA 001 Rod Roberts oral history collection
Dimensions2 audio cassettes
TrannscriptionCassette 1 Side OneTrack 1 - Born in Emerald, WI Aug. 18, 1893; family English, Scotch and Irish; grandfather was from Pennsylvania and grandmother was from Lake Champlain area, rafted down the Allegheny, to the Ohio, to the Mississippi and up the Mississippi to Wisconsin; family were farmers had cattle, hogs, horses, grain; had a brother and sister, he was the oldest; Grimes said he played baseball as far back as he can remember; played on town teams, high school baseball; first professional team was Eau Claire in 1912; played in for a semi-pro team in Minnesota; next year he played for Ottumwa Iowa in the Central Association; got paid $80 a month in Eau Claire, when he left they owned him a month's salary plus a quarter a meal for expenses (00:00:00 to 00:05:44) Track 2 - On pitching the spitball since he was 14; uncle was a cattle buyer and he helped load the cattle and took him into the St. Paul to see the street cars; Mike Kelley owned the St. Paul Saints and his uncle took him to a ball game, where he saw Hank Gehring pitch a spitball and he told him how to do it; went home and got some bass wood and started chewing it and the first couple he threw broke, so he had it; switched to slippery elm; it swells up in your mouth like a sponge; putting it on the ball is like oiling a piston in a car; make it break however you want it by changing the way you throw it (00:05:44 to 00:10:14) Track 3 - Not rely solely on spitball, no pitcher ever did, have to evaluate the hitters (00:10:14 to 00:10:53) Track 4 - On other pitchers using tobacco, licorice, Bill Doak used lozenges; Doak's deep pocket baseball glove; spitball didn't necessarily make for wild pitches; pitchers also used sandpaper, and dirt and bottle caps to change the way the air makes the ball move, pitcher named (Henry?) Clarke?) who put it in the dirt (00:10:53 to 00:13:19) Track 5 - On smoking, reaching the age of 90 (00:13:19 to 00:14:08) Track 6 - Was in the Minor Leagues from 1913 to 1916, then went to Pittsburgh; on Honus Wagner, great buy, great ballplayer, on pronouncing his name; on the tail end of Wagner's career; he was bow-legged, so he was the first one to wear his uniform pants long; comparing Wagner to modern shortstops like Ozzie Smith, had a great arm, timed the runner and let them run their heads off; today the gloves are like a bushel baskets (00:14:08 to 00:18:33) Track 7 - Family encouraged him to play baseball as a kid; played in high school; his father played ball and managed a ball club; stopped playing when he had to hit a curve; ; brother's name is Surleigh (00:18:33 to 00:20:42) Track 8 - On Max Carey, great outfielder, first one to bring in sunglasses, a fast base runner; (Frank) Wildfire Schulte, how he batted, Schulte was in Syracuse and had a horse that they raced, and his horse's name was Wildfire; a good hitter; another good hitter Bill Hinchman; Hooks Warner from Texas; other players came the same year as Grimes, Bill Evans, Bob Steele, Jack Scott, Bob Harmon (00:20:42 to 00:23:40) Track 9 - On trouble with manager (?) Mesnick, and he called Grimes "Paddy" and told him to shut his mouth and they got in a fight in the washroom (00:23:40 to 00:25:05) Track 10 - Not a good ball club, he won 3 and lost 17 that year so he was traded to Brooklyn; hard to be on a losing team, seemed like he lost every way possible (00:25:05 to 00:26:27) Track 11 - On Benny Kauff, a good hitter, good fielder (00:26:27 to 00:27:10) Track 12 - On going to Brooklyn with Wilbert Robinson as manager; players pushing him around, players out drinking all night; Grimes wanted to win, playing with Walter Schmidt, giving him advice; Robinson having a great sense of humor (00:27:10 to 00:29:02) Track 13 - On Brooklyn pitchers, Rube Marquard, Jeff Pfeffer, (Leon) Cadore, Sherry Smith, Johnny Miljus, George Mohart, heck of a pitching staff; (interrupted with coffee) learned a lot from other pitchers; the one he learned the most from was Dick Rudolph on the Boston Braves, (tape runs out) (00:29:02 to 00:30:34) Cassette 1 Side Two Track 1 - On other pitchers showing him things, Ed Reulbach told him to hang in there, he'd be a good pitcher one of these days; on pitchers not guarding their secrets; pitchers discuss hitters more than hitters discuss pitchers; to get better, you have to learn better control (00:00:00 to 00:02:01) Track 2 - On good hitters, (Rogers) Hornsby, Bob Bescher, Sherry Magee; learn from your mistakes; on Zack Wheat, another good hitter, good left fielder (00:02:01 to 00:03:22) Track 3 - On changes in baseball, the gloves; the uniforms; one-handed catches; strike zone being smaller (00:03:22 to 00:04:46) Track 4 - On Jack Coombs, player and pitching coach; getting warmed up, being loose and relaxed; interviewer talks about Stan Coveleski (00:04:46 to 00:06:40) Track 5 - On good first year in Brooklyn, so-so second year because he was spiked on base by Frankie Frisch (00:06:40 to 00:07:36) Track 6 - Good year in 1920, won the pennant, on Rowdy Elliott, earned his nickname (00:07:36 to 00:08:41) Track 7 - On losing the 1920 World Series; Cleveland scored seven runs off of Grimes when (Elmer Smith) hit a home run with bases loaded, and then (Jim) Bagby hit a fly into the right field bleachers for another three runs; Grimes pitched the last game and lost; first grand slam home run ever in the World Series; Cleveland was a good ball club, (Duster) Mails shut Sherry Smith out and "that's what broke our back;" pitching against Tris Speaker, a wonderful ball player; played with George Burns in Ottumwa, IA, when Jim McGuire bought he and Burns for $750; then the next time they met was in the World Series, and Burns was the leading hitter in American League and Grimes led the National League in pitching (00:08:41 to 00:11:10) Track 8 - On today's players, money and dope; Grimes made $2,600 in the big league, up to $4,200, then to $22,500 later on (00:11:10 to 00:12:51) Track 9 - On Joe Sewell, hard to strike out, had a good eye, good shortstop (00:12:51 to 00:13:33) Track 10 - On working with different catchers; Zack Taylor had best hands of any catcher; also had good experience with a lot of other catchers; Jimmy Wilson not liking his signs shook off (00:13:33 to 00:15:32) Track 11 - On 1921 season, Grimes had a good year but rest of the club did not; on Dutch Ruether (tape glitches) (00:15:32 to 00:17:03) Track 12 - On pitchers being able to hit, being an asset to yourself as well as the club (00:17:03 to 00:17:38) Track 13 - On relief pitching; sometimes relieved everyday or every other day; sometimes having a sore arm, went to Bonesetter (Reese?) and he stretched it out, Grimes went back and pitched the next day (00:17:38 to 00:19:53) Track 14 - On 1930 World Series, losing to Philadelphia; Grimes didn't do well pitching for the St. Louis Cardinals, not many hits allowed in that Series; teams were evenly balanced; Philadelphia had some good hitters, (Jimmie) Foxx, (Al) Simmons, (Mickey) Cochrane (00:19:53 to 00:21:10) Track 15 - On Connie Mack; he gave him a hard time during the World Series (00:21:10 to 00:21:57) Track 16 - More on the 1930 World Series; Lefty Grove pitching, then (George) Earnshaw (00:21:57 to 00:22:32) Track 17 - On throwing at players, "turning (Bill?) Terry's cap around; batters not getting out of the way; on Larry Doyle, not "letting" him hit the ball, but Doyle getting hits off of him (tape runs out) (00:22:32 to 00:24:05) Cassette 2 Side One Track 1 - On batters learning how to hit his pitches (00:00:00 to 00:01:40) Track 2 - On Paul Derringer, started first game in 1930 World Series; got better as he got older (00:01:40 to 00:02:03) Track 3 - On finally winning 1931 World Series; getting hurt and being traded to the Chicago Cubs for Hack Wilson, and sold Wilson for $50,000 to Brooklyn; he hurt himself during the '31 Series, legs were too strong and he caved in the middle, felt it in the last inning of the last game of the World Series; doctors said they couldn't do anything for him; on Charlie Grimm; other players (Stan) Hack, (Billy Herman? Or Leroy Herrmann?), (Billy) Jurges (Riggs) Stephenson, (Kiki) Cuyler, (Johnny) Moore, (Marv) Gudat, Charlie Root, Pat Malone, Jakie May, (Guy?) Bush, Bud Tinning (00:02:03 to 00:05:29) Track 4 - On Cuyler, good arm, but used to overthrow or under-throw; Herman (or Herrmann) a tough ballplayer; Hack was a good ballplayer, Grimes got taken out because Hack snapped his finger at the ball, had an "ingrown face" (00:05:29 to 00:07:49) Track 5 - On Bobo Newsom, really something else, got run over by a mule so he limped; got hit by the ball because of his stance; wanted to have his cake and eat it too, just like modern players; Grimes only the player in the National League who never went to the brewery; Grimes drinks beer and an occasional high ball; in St. Louis, used to go out to Busch Gardens for mint juleps after the game to get the slippery elm out of his mouth (00:0 7:49 to 00:11:27) Track 6 - Started playing with older men when he was just 11 years old; interviewer talks about Ed Roush (00:11:27 to 00:12:25) Track 7 - On outlawing spitballs; Barney Dreyfuss said they were going to outlaw spitballs, and told Grimes to quit throwing it and he said "I brought it with me Mr. Dreyfuss, I'll take it with me when I go;" the spitballers had to register and were allowed to continue it until they retired; a legitimate pitch, should be allowed; some are still throwing it today (interruption to discuss lunch) (00:12:25 to 00:15:57) Track 8 - People have been spitting on the ball as long as there has been a ball; difference between roughing the ball and spitting on the ball (00:15:57 to 00:16:39) Track 9 - Pitched as a reliever in 1932 World Series (00:16:39 to 00:16:55) Track 10 - Returned to St. Louis; played with Leo Durocher, "leather and lip," also played with Ethan Allen and Paul Dean; Allen was in Cincinnati, Pittsburgh manager (Donie) Bush runs off the bench and tells Grimes that Allen was an inside hitter and he pitched him inside and he hit it, so it taught him a lesson; Paul Dean had a different style from Dizzy Dean, very quiet, Dizzy did all the talking for both of them (00:16:55 to 00:20:50) Track 11 - Interviewer talks about players Grimes didn't know (00:20:50 to 00:21:21) Track 12 - On Cookie Lavagetto, hitting a home run off him pinch-hitting, a good ball player; also Arky Vaughan could run like a deer; Waite Hoyt, paid $1500 to get Hoyt for Pittsburgh; then went to Brooklyn; Hoyt a good pitcher, master craftsman, nice man (00:21:21 to 00:23:49) Track 13 - On 1934 with the Yankees; (Tony) Lazzeri the first game Grimes was a relief pitcher; the Yankees let him go and he went back to Pittsburgh; last game was as a relief pitcher for Heinie Meine against the Dodgers (00:23:49 to 00:25:20) Track 14 - (Contains profanity) On Babe Ruth, didn't have a good year in '34, he was too heavy; on Lou Gehrig, liked him very much, quiet and reserved, not a warm person, strong man, terrific guy; everyone on the team smoked a pipe even though Joe McCarthy didn't want people to be "too satisfied;" on Ben Chapman, was Grimes' coach in Toronto, used to get red in the face, come running off the bench; Ruth was talking about people saying he was too old and they couldn't win the pennant, and Chapman said "Babe, I said that and what are you going to do about it," (tape runs out) (00:25:20 to 00:30:30) Cassette 2 Side Two Track 1 - On enjoying managing, an easy job, went to the Cardinals and they made him manager of the minor league team in Bloomington, IL, he talked to Charlie Baird (?) the scout and told him to take whoever they gave him, Burt Shotton, Eddie "someone" (Morgan?) and they would make enough mistakes to get him a good ball club; he won the pennant; all four of his pitchers moved up to the Majors, Max Macon, Al Sherer, Bill Cox (00:00:00 to 00:01:30) Track 2 - On managing in the Minor vs. Major Leagues, want to make the most money and have the best ball club; in Brooklyn he had four or five positions filled and four or five open; once he won a pennant, he had more money to hire better ballplayers ; more teaching in the Minors then than now (00:01:30 to 00:02:54) Track 3 - On pitcher Van Lingle Mungo, a great guy, could throw hard, one time in Polo Grounds, he pitched a great game, and Grimes was going to take him out and put in a relief pitcher; on creating a good environment for a ball club (00:02:54 to 00:04:41) Track 4 - On not wanting a manager's job in modern baseball; all comes down to money; players make more money than managers; interviewer talks about modern players and how they can't be controlled; Grimes said players in the old days never wanted to be traded, that was bad (00:04:41 to 00:07:14) Track 5 - On spitting on an umpire; the papers said they saw him spit in the guy's eye, (home plate umpire Robert Williams) but Grimes said they approached him outside of the park, and he says he didn't do it, but he was suspended, cost him a lot of money (00:07:14 to 00:10:10) Track 6 - On "Old Stubblebeard" nickname, another thing the newspapers came up with, he didn't shave on the days that he pitched, because rosin on the towel would burn his face, not a superstition, but he had a few superstitions (00:10:10 to 00:12:01) Track 7 - On the Hall of Fame going to the expense of bringing the players to Cooperstown, so Grimes wants to cooperate and "earn my keep," can't do enough for the Hall of Fame (tape runs out) (00:12:01 to 00:13:42)" Public Access NotePlease note that not all works are on view at all times - their availability is subject to change per the discretion of the Museum staff. Only a portion of NBHFM's collection is currently online and the information presented here is subject to updates and additions based on research and imaging activities. The images, titles, and descriptions are products of their time. If you have corrections or additional information about this object, please email research@baseballhall.org to help improve our records. This material is made available for private study, scholarship, and research use. Every effort has been made to accurately determine the rights status of images. Please email us if you have further information on the rights status of an image contrary to or in addition to the information in our records. For more information or access to a high resolution reproduction (some fees may apply), contact: National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum, Giamatti Research Center, research@baseballhall.org, 607-547-0330.