Cool Papa Bell interview
Date1981 September 26-27
DescriptionFive audio cassettes featuring an interview with James "Cool Papa" Bell conducted by Rod Roberts on the behalf of the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum at Bell's home in St. Louis, Missouri on September 26, 1981 and September 27, 1981.
Object numberHF-1994-0001-001
Interviewer
Roberts, Rod
Interviewee
Bell, Cool Papa, 1903-1991
Subject
Bell, Cool Papa, 1903-1991
Classificationsaudio/visual materials
Library Call NumberCTA 812
Library Call NumberCTA 813
Library Call NumberCTA 810
Library Call NumberCTA 811
Library Call NumberCTA 814
Collection NumberBA RMA 001 Rod Roberts oral history collection
Dimensions5 audio cassettes
TrannscriptionCassette 1 content includes: Side One -- Track 1 - Birth, May 17, 1903, Starkville, Mississippi; Family; Indian heritage; Stepfather Nichols; Change name back to James Bell in St. Louis; sometimes middle name Thomas; Signing baseball cards (00:00:00 to 00:05:51) Track 2 - On living on grandfather's farm; great-uncle getting free land (00:05:51 to 00:07:53); Track 3 - More on Indian heritage; shaving and farming (00:07:53 to 00:09:36) Track 4 - Selling food from a wagon; Burying money under trees, bricks; Dividing up inheritance (00:09:36 to 00:20:18); Track 5 - On working on farm; Learning to plow at Mississippi State College experimental station at age 11-12; Seeing others playing baseball; Teaching college students about corn, cotton; White students throwing rocks at him; Rivalry with Old Miss (00:20:18 to 00:28:54); Track 6 - On not being old enough for WWI; classified as married ineligible for WWII; Politics and the President cutting poverty programs (00:28:54 to 00:31:40); Track 7 - On allowing blacks to play in the Major Leagues; Jackie Robinson; Hamilton; Jesse Owens; Racing against horses (00:31:40 to 00:39:46); Track 8 - On Satchel Paige; Cleveland wanting someone from Negro League; Managing Paige; Sportswriters wanting Paige to pitch In Iowa; Returning to Kansas City; Paige throwing 54 strikes in 58 pitches and hitting a matchbox as a tryout for Cleveland; Cleveland signing Paige for $5,000 (00:39:46 to 00:46:05.52) Side Two -- Track 1 - On Satchel Paige winning six out of seven games; going to World Series; public not knowing about details; Bell managing Paige in Cleveland; $250 rocking chair; playing in Pittsburgh on Sundays (00:00:00 to 00:03:27); Track 2 - On one-room education no further than 5th grade in Mississippi; qualifying for two years high school; learning reading and writing; white people as a whole not being against blacks; black and white laborers together; black people building America; blacks selling other blacks into slavery; importance of education in molding your mind (00:03:27 to 00:08:24); Track 3 - On importance of integration to promoting understanding; Bible references, man created from dust; treating everyone the same; strength of wind, water and women; charity goes beyond the grave; receiving shoes as a child; power of understanding (00:08:24 to 00:16:32); Track 4 - On religion, going to church, learning about Jerusalem; being baptized as an adult in 1939; paying money to the church from Mexico; doing God's work and preaching to people; heaven on Earth (00:16:32 to 00:21:56); Track 5 - On fun in childhood, playing ball, killing snakes and rats; going to church on Sundays (00:21:56 to 00:23:40); Track 6 - On being too small to play baseball, starting to play with sister; playing in school; kids playing in nearby town Blackjack and being too small to pitch but striking out all but one of the men; getting a hit and a great meal with homemade ice cream (00:23:40 to 00:28.35); Track 7 - On Starkville and surrounding towns; traveling by horse and cart, bicycle; going to house parties where people played guitar, banjo and fiddles; uncle and grandfather playing music on organ, piano and drums; grandfather having ¾ Indian blood; grandfather growing watermelon, sugar cane, raising bees (00:28:35 to 00:33:34); Track 8 - On leaving Starkville as a knuckleball pitcher to join the Compton Hill Cubs; brother as a left-handed catcher; pitching against East St. Louis Cubs and Giants; signing with the Stars while working at a packing house; only a boy getting a salary like a man; getting support from brother (00:33:34 to 00:37:17); Track 9 - On Edd Roush on differences in pitching between Town and Majors; off-microphone conversations about drinks; someone (son?) talking about Bell playing ball with kids; having a good job; Bell looking for something; Bell having a jar of marbles and playing as a child; someone talking about being Catholic, taking Communion, Bell rummaging for something, complaining about his eyesight (00:37:17 to 00:46:00). Cassette 2 content includes: Side One -- Track 1 - On working in a packing house; not getting paid for playing baseball; manager stealing money; playing for Compton Hills; St. Louis Afros; started with St. Louis Stars in 1922-31 until team folded; playing other games outside the League (Hoover Sweepers team;) not having statistics from those years (00:00:00 to 00:6:23) Track 2 - On Oscar Charleston; Ren Deagle; Willie Wells nickname Devil, knocking someone's teeth out; Wells as Bell's wife's first boyfriend; rooming with Wells in 1932 (00:06:23 to 00:12:04) Track 3 - Getting Married in 1928 (00:12:04 to 00:12:30) Track 4 - More on playing with Oscar Charleston; pitching knuckleball; Bingo DeMoss; playing in Fort Wayne, IN (00:12:30 to 00:17:40) Track 5 - On Jimmie Lyons; Rube Foster, recommending him for Hall of Fame; racing Lyons in cheap shoes, buying better shoes; playing for Jim Taylor (00:17:40 to 00:21:07) Track 6 - On pitching vs. outfield; not being able to beat the Cuban Stars (00:21:07 to 00:22:20) Track 7 - On John Henry Lloyd, knock-knees (00:22:20 to 00:23:06) Track 8 - Someone (wife Clarabelle?) talking about photos; Bell signing yearbook, cards; Wife born in Nashville; not depending on parents for help; taking care of wife; Bible passage; on nephew getting married. (00:23:06 to 00:30:08) Track 9 - On Buck Leonard (tape runs out during comment) (00:30:08 to 00:30:29) Side Two -- Track 1 - Playing with Buck Leonard in Pittsburgh, Homestead Grays; Josh Gibson; Leonard and Gibson comparable to Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig; on seeing Babe Ruth Play in 1926, home runs; Roger Maris 61 home runs (00:00:00 to 00:03:04) Track 2 - On Garry Templeton, Satchel Paige rates Templeton next to Wells; players making throwing errors; Jackie Robinson and Gil Hodges; Jackie Robinson being a very smart ballplayer (00:03:04 to 00:06:58) Track 3 - On convincing Jackie Robinson not to play shortstop; showing him base running techniques; Robinson being quick; being sick and not able to throw properly; watching older players; Robinson only hitting to left field, being a good bunter; evaluating a ball player and picking a team; player (?) Brock as a lead-off hitter; deciding when to steal and when to hit; deciding batting order; not playing well in All Star games (00:06:58 to 00:18:34) Track 4 - On the greatest thing in baseball being when the Major Leagues were opened to black players; black players passing as white; rumor about Babe Ruth not being white (00:18:34 to 00:20:37) Track 5 - Being 1st player to hit three home runs in one game in Cuba in 1930; people throwing money out to him; League breaking up same day; receiving gifts—beer, ham, whiskey, Bacardi rum, Bulldog beer, champagne; player (Miguel?) Gonzales; pitcher (Oscar Joseph "Chick" ?) Levis (00:20:37 to 00:27:48) Track 6 - On players throwing at each other; someone stealing from players; more about Gonzales; player (Julio?) Rojo (00:27:48 to 00:30:01) Track 7 - On batting stance (tape runs out) (00:30:01 to 00:30:20) Cassette 3 content includes: Side One -- Track 1 - On batting stance; where to stand in the box to hit to different places; Edd Roush getting set after the pitcher started; Heinie Groh hitting with a short bat; different types of bats; manager “Spark Plugâ€� Reese; buying an old bat from Spaulding; pitcher (?) Davis breaking his bat (00:00:00 to 00:06:32) Track 2 - More on Spark Plug Reese; Reese being a good base runner; how Rube Foster played; different tricks to win; manager (James Allen "Candy Jim") Jim Taylor (00:06:32 to 00:11:00) Track 3 - On people wanting home runs; Babe Ruth; Yankee Stadium’s short right side; Josh Gibson hitting longest home runs; ball players needing to develop talent (00:11:00 to 00:13:05) Track 4 - Training to develop weak points; offense hitting the long ball; working on defense weak points; on changing a player’s style to hit a long ball; wrist hitter vs. power hitter (00:13:05 to 00:16:04) Track 5 - On Josh Gibson, a catcher that could also hit the long ball; Gibson drinking and having a brain tumor; rooming with Samuel Bankhead; Gibson being OK in Mexico; dying in 1947; tumor changing his personality; Bell being sick in 1945, losing weight, hitting against Leon Day; Gibson being sent home to Pittsburgh, stopping in Washington; health deteriorating; another player (Zy?) Wright also having health problems from being in the Army (00:16:04 to 00:27:00) Track 6 - On best team, Pittsburgh Crawfords: Bell, Josh Gibson, Buck Leonard, (Judy?) Johnson on third, (?) Carlisle, (?) Easterman, Judd Wilson, (?) Cooper, Satchel Paige; (Sam?) Streeter (00:27:00 to 00:30:19) Track 7 - On toughest pitcher (tape runs out) (00:30:19 to 00:30:29) Side Two -- Track 1 - On pitchers being tough; problems with timing; pitcher (Lindy?) McDaniel; (?) Smith; pitcher Ken (?) Satchel Paige being fast; Dizzy Dean’s curve ball; ball hitting the bat (00:00:00 to 00:02:13) Track 2 - On Satchel Paige being fastest pitcher; pitcher (Stuart) Slim Jones as a left-handed pitcher; playing a dream game in Philadelphia, Bell hitting a home run and striking out three times. (00:02:13 to 00:04:34) Track 3 - Playing in Baker Bowl in Philadelphia (00:04:34 to 00:05:25) Track 4 - On Connie Mack; playing in Mexico City with left-handed pitcher (Charles?) Beverly; players (Josh) Gibson, (?) Palm, (Dwight?) Davis, (Oscar) Charleston, Max Bishop, Jimmy Fox, (Roger) Doc Cramer, Max Lanier; hitting balls into playground; (?) Hodges; Connie Mack wanting to integrate baseball but not being able to afford it; prejudice in the U.S. continuing in modern times; using cane to avoid robberies (00:05:25 to 00:19:26) Track 5 - On racial troubles when playing ball, in Philadelphia; Canada East-West Game, bringing Cuban Stars players, (Martin?) Dihigo; Josh Gibson hitting a home run; Bell getting razzed by fans, scoring and winning (00:19:26 to 00:23:57) Track 6 - On comedy baseball; playing against the Indianapolis/Cincinnati Clowns, good pitcher Peanut (?), women players (Dixon?) throwing as hard as men; (Jackie Mitchell?) striking out Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig; Oscar Charleston and donkey ball; Bell not throwing a game (00:23:57 to 00:28:10) Track 7 - Playing softball in California; striking out, Willie Bobo (tape runs out) (00:28:10 to 00:30:28) Cassette 4 content includes: Side One -- Track 1 - Going to the Dominican Republic in 1937 to play on a team for dictator Rafael Trujillo; Satchel Paige not wanting to go but getting offered a large sum of money; a lot of Negro players going there to play, including members of the Crawfords; Bell not wanting to pay for training expenses so apply to go to Dominican Republic; agree to go for $1,000; going through Miami, Cuba and Haiti; pitcher (Leroy?) Matlock wanting $1200 (00:00:00 to 00:11:08) Track 2 - Getting half of his money in Miami to send to family; big crowd waiting to see the players; Petrucho Cepeda (father of Orlando Cepeda) on the team; staying in a hotel with valet; being in danger from political situation, player Andrew (?); guarding the players’ money (00:11:08 to 00:15:31) Track 3 - On playing three games a week; going to Santiago and getting in a car accident, hurting shoulder and knee; (Bill?) Perkins playing outfield and catcher; recruiting Josh Gibson to play for $2400 for four weeks; winning championship; being threatened (00:15:31 to 00:22:21) Track 4 - On picnic on a farm; taking eight days on a ship back to San Juan, Puerto Rico; supposed to play the Cardinals in exhibition but Cardinals canceled (00:22:21 to 00:24:32) Track 5 - On working winter season at a meat packing house in St. Louis rather than going to Venezuela; shaving legs off hogs; finger going numb from using knife; switching to working with guts; workers go out on strike (tape runs out) (00:24:32 to 00:30:35) Side Two -- Track 1 - On not being involved in packing plant workers strike; getting a job at a different packing house (00:00:00 to 00:03:17) Track 2 - On Cristóbal Torriente; first baseman (Tullie?) McAdoo being crippled; playing short center field; (Oscar) Charleston; (Willie?) Mays playing short; (Curt?) Flood playing center field (00:03:17 to 00:06:24) Track 3 - On Edd Roush knowing where the ball would be, catching bare-handed (00:06:24 to 00:07:40) Track 4 - On different types of gloves; Jim Banks; Bell’s glove in Hall of Fame (00:07:40 to 00:09:01) Track 5 - On Bullet Joe Bush; George Earnshaw; (Elwood) Bingo DeMoss, hitting the long ball; Chicago ball park (00:09:01 to 00:11:03) Track 6 - On Ernie Banks; playing for team in Amarillo; Banks hitting the long ball; Bell recommending Banks to Kansas City Monarchs; shortstop Gene Baker; Bell calling Tom Baird about Banks; signing Elston Howard; had heard about (Teeny?) Edwards (00:11:03 to 00:15:06) Track 7 - Managing farm team for Kansas City Monarchs from 1948-50; editorial comments regarding managers by interviewer Rod Roberts; Bell acting as a “parentâ€� to some of the players; players representing the team; going on the road; players’ rules; Connie Mack; earning respect; players drinking beer; not allowing women on the bus (00:15:06 to 00:27:34) Track 8 - On drinking and carousing in the Negro Leagues; some players being worse than others; manager Jim Taylor sitting in front of hotel at night (00:27:34 to 00:30:32) Cassette 5 content includes: Side One -- Track 1 - On getting a doctor checkup before spring training; staying in condition (00:00:00 to 00:01:22) Track 2 - On playing night baseball starting in 1929; some towns didn’t have lights; how the lights are focused to avoid shadows; lights in St. Louis; widening Market Street and taking space away from ball park; “liveâ€� balls; how balls are made by hand; making rag baseballs as a child; uncle having a rubber bouncy ball and playing with the kids; meeting his uncle in St. Louis at Willie’s Tavern (00:01:22 to 00:12:52) Track 3 - On traveling from Sacramento to Reno; Bell not wanting players to bring whiskey on the team bus so they brought gin and wine (00:12:52 to 00:15:49) Track 4 - On being fast; running bases differently than other people, explaining to umpires; not sliding head-first; using a hook slide; stealing home; (George) "Mule" Suttles stealing home and John Henry Russell swinging at the pitch (00:15:49 to 00:20:56) Track 5 - On how Suttles got the nickname “Mule;â€� Josh Gibson hitting the ball further than Suttles; Gibson hitting 72 home runs; playing in open lots (00:20:56 to 00:22:23) Track 6 - On Turkey Stearnes hitting home runs; how he got the nickname Turkey, because his chest stuck way out (00:22:23 to 00:25:12) Track 7 - On Effa Manley and husband (Abe;) being a good businesswoman, knowing baseball; on Bell’s team being more experienced than the Newark Eagles; (Leniel?) Hooker; (Max?) Manning; (Jimmy?) Wilkes; (Pete) Hill; (Don) Newcombe; catcher (Leon?) Ruffin, one of best catchers Bell ever saw; (Raleigh) "Biz" Mackey, another great all-around catcher (00:25:12 to 00:32:23) Track 8 - On catchers throwing from a crouch; catcher Bruce Petway, throwing Ty Cobb out 16 times out of 17; rough ball play, spiking players; on umpires calling balks (00:32:23 to 00:34:31) Track 9 - On black spit ball pitchers; half balk (00:34:31 to 00:36:06) Track 10 - On Steve Carlton move at the plate; umpire calling balks; umpires referring to the rulebook; rules changing; on ball players not making much money in the early days; Nolan Ryan; on getting into the Hall of Fame; (Joe) Tinker and (Johnny) Evers being in Hall of Fame because of poem; on ball players being worth the money; shortstop (?) Hamilton breaking his leg and having to get a job; players not having pensions; player (?) Paul with a high batting average; (Pop?) Lloyd a good all-around ball player; tape runs out (00:36:06 to 00:45:57) Side Two -- Track 1 - On ballplayers needing pensions; savings not lasting; not worried about dying; planning for retirement (00:00:00 to 00:04:04) Track 2 - On (Theodore) "High Pockets" Trent; recommending Satchel Paige; Trent going to Chicago and getting involved in nightclub scene; catching TB and died (00:04:04 to 00:06:24) Track 3 - On Quincy Trouppe being an all-around great player; Trouppe pitching a double-header; Willie Mays being flashy and exciting to fans; Mays not being able to throw as far as people thought he could; fans betting on the hits (00:06:24 to 00:12:29) Track 4 - On Richard "Cannonballâ€� Redding; (John Henry) Lloyd playing shortstop; Nip Winters; (Frank?) Duff; (Andrew) "String Bean" Williams; Bells seeing many players when they were past their prime (00:12:29 to 00:15:01) Track 5 - On Spottswood Poles being a great outfielder; hitting 600; Bell not seeing him play but meeting his daughter; Joe Williams (00:15:01 to 00:17:18) Track 6 - On Andrew Pullman Porter, sidearm pitcher, good curve ball (00:17:18 to 00:18:00) Track 7 - On Monte Irvin, the best young prospect when baseball was being integrated; Bell tried to keep him out of the Army; Gus Greenlee and Branch Rickey’s United States League; Irvin going to United States team; Greenlee managing boxers, John Henry Lewis, Christopher Lewis, Joe Lewis, all brothers; Irvin going into the Army and developing a nervous condition, not ever being as good again (00:18:00 to 00:21:43) Track 8 - On (Charles) Chino Smith; pitcher (Lukey?); end of interview (00:21:43 to 00:22:47)Public Access NotePlease note that not all works are on view at all times - their availability is subject to change per the discretion of the Museum staff. 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