Hal Newhouser interview
Date1992 October 05
DescriptionTwo audio cassettes featuring an interview with Hal Newhouser by Rod Roberts on behalf of the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum on October 5, 1992 in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan.
Object numberHF-1996-0001-03
Interviewer
Roberts, Rod
Interviewee
Newhouser, Hal, 1921-1998
Subject
Newhouser, Hal, 1921-1998
Classificationsaudio/visual materials
Collection NumberBA RMA 001 Rod Roberts oral history collection
Library Call NumberCTA 775
Library Call NumberCTA 776
Dimensions2 audio cassettes
TrannscriptionCassette 1 Side OneTrack 1 - Setting levels (00:00:00 to 00:00:56) Track 2 - Born in Detroit May 20, 1921; always been a privilege to be a Detroit boy, signed with the Detroit Tigers and spent his career with them; born in an area of Detroit near the Olympia Stadium where the Detroit Redwings played hockey; mostly Germans, Czechs and Polish people; they moved northwest, 10-12 miles out of Detroit when he was six months old and he lived there until he got married at 20; mother and father were from Czechoslovakia, near Prague; his father's father put him on a boat during World War I when he was 15 and shipped him off to the U.S.; mother's family came to the U.S. later; his parents met in Pittsburgh (00:00:56 to 00:03:35) Track 3 - Parents came to Detroit for a job in the automobile industry; he was born in Detroit, his oldest brother Richard was born in Pennsylvania; never knew his paternal grandparents, only have one picture of them; on his mother's side, he knew both of his grandparents; they typically spoke English at home except when his parents would get into a discussion; his father could speak four-five languages, Czech, German, English, some Polish; very well versed in language; he wishes he could speak more languages (00:03:35 to 00:06:18) Track 4 - Father was a wood pattern-maker, started with Chrysler as a draftsman, quite an artist; he opened his own wood pattern shop with a partner; a tedious job, very slow-paced, his father suggested he become a pattern-maker, but he didn't have the patience, so he went into tool-and-die in vocational high school; spent four years at Wilbur Wright High School, learned how to use the tools, run the machinery, Chrysler and Ford would take seniors and start them as machinists during their senior year; during World War II, he worked in a machine shop making 40mm gun barrel reamers for the Navy, also did that for 3-4 years in the off season; they worked by hand rather than by machine, the way it's done today; they don't have that type of school today, the city of Detroit was going to start an all-boys vocational school, but it was considered discrimination, so they dropped the plan; need better education for kids today because they have no trades at all; his father only went through 8th grade and he could do Newhouser's 12th grade calculus; the country should have more vocational trade schools; his was an all-boys schoo (00:06:18 to 00:11:45) Track 5 - His family was just his parents and two boys; brother Richard was four years older and started out in pro ball before he did, but got hit in the head during a night game in Gladstone, AL and that put him out of baseball; they were hoping they could put him behind the plate, but getting hit took him out of the game; he probably would have made the big leagues; parents encouraged athletics; his father was a gymnastics instructor in Germany, double bars, single bars, springboard, he had medals for those; when he came to the U.S. the Czech and German community wanted him to start classes, so Newhouser learned all of his athletics from his dad; got his height from his mother, a big tall family; he could do all of the gymnastics; he played basketball for three years and was captain; they played football, but streetball, no pads; played street hockey with a stick and a tin can; was asked to work out with the Detroit Redwings Gordie Howe, Ted Lindsay and Sid Abel; he could skate and was a good puck handler (00:11:45 to 00:15:10) Track 6 - Played a lot of sports, and knew his career was going to be in sports, football, hockey, basketball or baseball; they had a scrub team when he was 14, his street played another team, he was a left-handed shortstop, because he had the best arm; pitcher got hurt and they asked him to pitch, so he tried it, he was a little wild, but they didn't get many hits; in middle school, he had a teacher named Mr. Lot, who allowed them to bring a radio in to listen to the 1935 World Series between the Tigers and the Cubs; when Goose Goslin got a base hit in 9th inning and scored Mickey Cochrane from second base, and Detroit became the world champions, he said to himself, "Wouldn't it be nice to be in a World Series like that?" That's what got him started; his first thought was to get on a team; his street team became an E class team for boys 15 and under, and he went on to win nine games and the league championship; he was picked up by an Allegiant club, and went up another grade, the scouts came to see him when he struck out 24 out of 27 men; that was how he got into baseball; he stopped playing football, basketball, and decided to be a baseball player, had a number of things/dreams he wanted to accomplish in life, wanted to sign a contract with the Tigers in his hometown; he got a contract and got into the Minor Leagues, and wanted to win 20 games and wanted to hit .300, to see his name in the papers, and that happened in Detroit, he won his first 20 games; got into an All-Star Game; pitchers seldom get the Most Valuable Player award, and he strung some wins together and won the MVP award; the next thing he set his sights on was winning the MVP award two years in a row, and he did, that was unheard of; then he was having dinner with his roommate, Stubby Overmire on the road, and Overmire said that someday he might be put in the Hall of Fame, and eventually that happened in 1992 (00:15:10 to 00:21:27) Track 7 - Wish Egan signed him to a contract, he was a head scout; he works today for the Houston Astros for the past nine years; he worked in the banking industry for 20 years; today the Astros have 34-35 scouts; back in those days, only had one or two; Egan picked him up when he struck out 24 of 27 players; he used to take Newhouser on scouting trips, whenever other scouts were coming into town so the other scouts wouldn't see him play; they lived three houses from the corner, and the car pulled up with Egan and Del Baker, manager of the Tigers, and this was during the Depression, and his father worked six jobs in one day and always had something on the table to eat and bills were always paid; Egan and Baker they came into the house and said they wanted to sign him to a contract, took out $500 in cash, but the money in a stack with a contract for $150 a month; he was selling Detroit Free Press newspapers for a half a cent a paper, so that was a big jump; he signed the contract, gave his parents $400 and kept $100 for school expenses, went to Beaumont, TX for spring training; as Egan and Baker left, and turned the corner, and down the road came a huge Lincoln Continental, with Sly Slapicka, the general manager for Cleveland Indians, and (?) Bradley was the scout, they wanted him to room with Don Feller, the best right hander, and wanted him, the best left-hander, wanted to give him $15,000 for signing, plus a contract, plus give his father the keys to the Lincoln; but he had already signed a contract with Detroit; but they had stopped off to get the automobile; had they not stopped, they would have been there first; so they got taken in by Egan, but Newhouser had wanted to play for Detroit anyway, so it worked out (00:21:27 to 00:27:59) Track 8 - On regional loyalties, that day is gone, free agent drafting makes it impossible for a home town boy to be signed by hometown team; all depending on the standings; one local kid, John Smoltz, signed a contract with Detroit, but now is with the Atlanta, he was traded to Atlanta by Detroit for (?) Alexander; another local boy, Steve Avery, pitching for Atlanta, taken in the first round; free agency created a lot of money for players, glad to see them get it, but the free agency draft has made the money go so far out of line; a few clubs making money, but a lot aren't making money, 3-4-5-year contracts and they get paid whether they have a bad year or not; back when he played, what you did in 1992 is what you get paid in 1993 (Tape runs out) (00:27:59 to 00:30:35) Cassette 1 Side TwoTrack 1 - (story about doctor continues) Doctor said he could have some beef stock for three or four days, and every time he went back, the doctor said he looked better, but nothing helped his arm; he went to Boston for shots once, but didn't really help; he didn't let any "bonesetters" touch him; they know more today than they did then; couldn't understand why he didn't have sore muscles, he could bowl, golf and everything else, but couldn't throw overhand, today he has the same pain in the same spot, right in the shoulder; he is quite active, he just can't use his arm for anything over his head; he could still hit if he made contact with the bat, but when he missed it, it hurt; he met an old-time ballplayer one day in a lobby, and the man told him he thought he was bigger than baseball, he used to hit .300 all the time and got out when he dropped below .300, he wished he would have tried it for one more year on the chance that it was just an off year; that stuck with him and when he hurt his arm and got his release from Detroit, he decided to go back and give it another try; he lost velocity on his fastball, and his curveball wasn't as fast, his change of pace was ruined (00:00:00 to 00:05:47) Track 2 - On greatest defensive plays; one was for him, and one was he saw (Joe) DiMaggio catch Hank Greenberg's fly ball out in right center at Yankee Stadium, when the monuments were out in front of the wall, an article in the paper were comparing DiMaggio to Earle Coombs and Tris Speaker, and the paper said DiMaggio couldn't go back like the other two; Greenberg got up to hit and (Barney) McCosky was on first, Greenberg rifled one out to right center, high and hard, at least a triple; they thought DiMaggio didn't have a chance, he was playing in and they thought his arm was bothering him, but he caught the ball with ease, a great, great catch, almost like (Willie) Mays' catch on Vic Wertz's blast; the other one, center fielder Doc Cramer, never got credit for patrolling center field; playing at Briggs Stadium, there was a flagpole about 4-5 feet out into the playing field from the wall; John Lindell, a right-handed hitter with a lot of power, in the 12th inning; Newhouser made a horrible mistake and threw him a low fastball, and he hit it, a wonder it didn't go into the bleachers; and Cramer ran back and the ball hit just in front of the flagpole, and Lindell was rounding second going for third, Cramer got the ball on one bounce, grabbed left arm around the flagpole and swung around and threw a perfect throw to third base and got Lindell out at third; the Tigers won the game in the bottom of the 12th inning; they got into the clubhouse and Newhouser asked him how he knew where third base was; and Cramer said he just followed the tiers that hold up the stands, and when he hit #16, he let it fly; Mays catch and throw were incredible, about equal to DiMaggio's; but Cramer never got enough credit (00:05:47 to 00:13:28) Track 3 - On Johnny Evers, his temperament was the opposite of Newhouser's, he was a great friend, they used to bass fish on Lake Okeechobee; but he kept everything inside, a wonder he didn't have ulcers; never showed his anger and eventually it caught up to him; he was a fine athlete, he'd have been a better player if he would have let off steam; the only thing Newhouser ever broke were the light bulbs that lit up the tunnel to the locker room; Fred Hutchinson was very destructive, they all went the opposite way from Hutchinson; one day, Hutchinson picked up the water cooler and threw it right out in the field; they called him the "Kodiak Bear" because he came from Washington State; he used to live out in the country, and by the time he got home, the game was over and that was the end of it (00:13:28 to 00:18:02) Track 4 - On greatest day in baseball was getting in the Hall of Fame; when the commissioner of baseball, Fay Vincent, called him up and read off his record off a plaque and handed him a copy of it and shook his hand, that was the greatest moment; as a team, the last out of the '45 World Series, worked so hard and they won the pennant the last day of the season and then won the World Series the last day, he got some runs and they won, in the 9th inning, they had a man on first, and the hitter hit to the shortstop and they got a forced out at second and they were the World Champions; the other great moment was being selected for the Most Valuable Player award in the American League; he waited 31 years for the Hall of Fame induction; hardest thing for him was standing there, during his acceptance field, seeing his family, 20-25,000 people, 75-100 photographers, writers, etc., and behind you are all your peers, the others in the Hall of Fame; his family was all in a row, his wife, his two daughters, his son-in-law, sister-in-law, brother, and then his mother on the end, he had about two minutes to look out over the crowd, and he was afraid he would make a fool of himself; his mother was 95 years old, so he thanked her first, she jumped up like a cork out of a champagne bottle, and a lot of his speech was about his wife, for staying with him; he mentioned Paul Richards, his catcher, the town of Alexander; he did it all without notes; the three greatest moments were getting inducted into the Hall of Fame, winning the World Series and being named MVP (00:18:02 to 00:24:32) Track 5 - On getting a lot more mail after the Hall of Fame induction (interviewer talks about Stanley Coveleski) Newhouser goes to autograph sessions and there are no kids there; he can tell when he gets mail from kids, he signs and send them right back, but at the autograph sessions, no one under 25 years old; they get the autographs and sell them; when you're gone, it's worth even more; the big item is bats, crazy how much people spend on bats and autographs; the way the world is going now, everything has changed (interviewer talks about baseball cards) (00:24:32 to 00:28:13) Track 6 - On Ferris Fain, he was a good hitter until he kicked the bag and broke his toe; they never played together, a pesky hitter, not a lot of power but hit a lot of line drives; on having the privilege of pitching against Jimmie Foxx, Ted Williams, Lou Boudreau (tape runs out) (00:28:13 to 00:29:38) Cassette 2 Side OneTrack 1 - (Picks up in the middle of conversation) Former teammate Hank Greenberg had become general manager of the Cleveland Indians, and they had a chance to win the pennant, had an excellent pitching staff, but needed a left-handed pitcher; his arm was in pretty bad shape, discussed it with (Dick) Wakefield and with his wife; Freddie Hutchinson was in FL, so was Hoot Evers, another teammate and (Earl) Torgeson, a first baseman; they decided to go down and rent a cottage and work out to see if he could get his arm back in shape, he pitched batting practice for about a month, he found he could pitch but couldn't start; came back and called Greenberg, and he joined the greatest pitching staff in the history of baseball: Early Wynn, Bob Lemon, Bob Feller, Mike Garcia, himself; four Hall of Famers, four starters pitching on the same club in the same year, and won the pennant, probably will never happen again in baseball; as a reliever that year, he won 7 games, lost 2 and saved 13 (00:00:00 to 00:03:43) Track 2 - Started having problems with his arm in '48; it started to bother him the last couple of games; they went to play in Cleveland the last weekend; Cleveland was in the pennant race with Boston; he had only had one day's rest and manager Steve O'Neill asked him to pitch against Feller, his rival; he had a good day, and they beat Cleveland 7-1, so they tied with Boston and had to go into a playoff; that day his arm started to bother him, in '49 it got really bad and from then it was all downhill, shoulder pain; 25 years later, they know about rotator cuffs and he went to a doctor to see what was wrong, and it turned out it was the rotator cuff; if he'd have had surgery all those years ago he might have pitched a few more years; he went from Detroit to Cleveland for 1954; in '55, Greenberg wanted him to come back and stay until left-handed pitcher Herb Score was ready, Score could have been another Lefty Grove; but he was hit in the eye by Gil McDougald and never recovered; Newhouser retired that year; pitching is a very vulnerable position; shouldn't use metal bats (00:03:43 to 00:10:06) Track 3 - Only other time he had arm problems was one time after a game, he was driving with his arm on the window sill, and he moved it, and his arm just fell down and that's when the trouble started, until he went to see a doctor years later, never knew what happened (tape glitches, end of his sentence is cut off) (00:10:06 to 00:11:27) Track 4 - (picks up in the middle of sentence) His nature never thought someone should get a base hit; the way he works, everything has to be done with perfection; his wife of 50-some years can attest to his problem with perfectionism; he doesn't do things half-way; enjoys refinishing furniture and golf clubs, he likes to work with wood, similar to his father working in the wood pattern business, he has more patience now; someone like Lefty Grove was the same type of person; Grove and Carl Hubbell were the best two left-handed pitchers, then Sandy Koufax came up; he saw Grove pitch toward the end of his career and he had a great fastball; Charlie Gehringer said he could pull any pitcher he wanted to pull except Grove, Gehringer could hit Grove but couldn't pull on him; Hubbell was in the National League, he was a screwball pitcher; another good left-hander was Whitey Ford; (Steve?) Avery from Atlanta might be of the same caliber, but doesn't throw as hard; best right-handed pitchers were (Bob) Gibson, Feller, (Roger) Clemons (00:11:27 to 00:15:44) Track 5 - Great hitters, (Ted) Williams and (Joe) DiMaggio; but there were other hitters who hit him better, including Tom McBride, center fielder for Boston Red Sox; Hank Bauer hit him pretty good; Lou Boudreau put a pretty good number on him; McBride and Bauer were fastball and first-ball hitters, and he was a fastball pitcher; DiMaggio hit fifth and Williams hit third; McBride would hit in the second spot, so you didn't want to walk him to bring up Williams; same with Bauer, DiMaggio hit fourth and Bauer hit third, so you didn't want to walk Bauer, so you gave McBride and Bauer better pitches to hit so you didn't walk them; Lou Boudreau was just a good hitter, period, why he's in the Hall of Fame; Williams was a left-handed hitter; DiMaggio hit him better than Williams; he had more trouble with the .220/.250 hitters than he did with the good hitters (00:15:44 to 00:19:24) Track 6 - On changes in the strike zone, today is brutal; no problems with inside and outside of the plate, problems with the ball upstairs; he'd have a problem with the fastballs and curveball, and then a change of pace; and today, he'd not be able to pitch in that strike zone; not sure who changed the rules, the owners, the umpires; the expansion to 26 teams has narrowed the field of good hitters; can go back into history and read about pitchers coming to a complete stop or being called for a balk; so these changes have happened in the past; today a pitcher can hit the catcher's mask, just below the belt, and it is called too high; makes the games longer, takes more out of the pitcher's arm, because they have to pitch more; more relief pitching, games go 3-3½ hours; can't brush a hitter back, the game has changed drastically and it's not the game he played; Astroturf and domed stadiums; everything has changed-helmets, expansion teams , domes—it's all changed the game (00:19:24 to 00:25:00) Track 7 - On relieving in '44 and '45, even when he was a starter; they were running for the pennant, so they did what they had to do; didn't mind being a reliever; being left-handed was an advantage (00:25:00 to 00:26:17) Track 8 - On not being sent to a doctor for his sore arm, the general manager for Detroit sent him to a doctor, but it was a complete joke, put a spoon down his throat to analyze his saliva; had his wife boil water with onions and he was supposed to drink the water for four days to cleanse his system, with nothing else to eat, and when he went back four days later, the doctor said he looked a lot better (tape ends) (00:26:17 to 00:28:17) Cassette 2 Side TwoTrack 1 - (story about doctor continues) Doctor said he could have some beef stock for three or four days, and every time he went back, the doctor said he looked better, but nothing helped his arm; he went to Boston for shots once, but didn't really help; he didn't let any "bonesetters" touch him; they know more today than they did then; couldn't understand why he didn't have sore muscles, he could bowl, golf and everything else, but couldn't throw overhand, today he has the same pain in the same spot, right in the shoulder; he is quite active, he just can't use his arm for anything over his head; he could still hit if he made contact with the bat, but when he missed it, it hurt; he met an old-time ballplayer one day in a lobby, and the man told him he thought he was bigger than baseball, he used to hit .300 all the time and got out when he dropped below .300, he wished he would have tried it for one more year on the chance that it was just an off year; that stuck with him and when he hurt his arm and got his release from Detroit, he decided to go back and give it another try; he lost velocity on his fastball, and his curveball wasn't as fast, his change of pace was ruined (00:00:00 to 00:05:47) Track 2 - On greatest defensive plays; one was for him, and one was he saw (Joe) DiMaggio catch Hank Greenberg's fly ball out in right center at Yankee Stadium, when the monuments were out in front of the wall, an article in the paper were comparing DiMaggio to Earle Coombs and Tris Speaker, and the paper said DiMaggio couldn't go back like the other two; Greenberg got up to hit and (Barney) McCosky was on first, Greenberg rifled one out to right center, high and hard, at least a triple; they thought DiMaggio didn't have a chance, he was playing in and they thought his arm was bothering him, but he caught the ball with ease, a great, great catch, almost like (Willie) Mays' catch on Vic Wertz's blast; the other one, center fielder Doc Cramer, never got credit for patrolling center field; playing at Briggs Stadium, there was a flagpole about 4-5 feet out into the playing field from the wall; John Lindell, a right-handed hitter with a lot of power, in the 12th inning; Newhouser made a horrible mistake and threw him a low fastball, and he hit it, a wonder it didn't go into the bleachers; and Cramer ran back and the ball hit just in front of the flagpole, and Lindell was rounding second going for third, Cramer got the ball on one bounce, grabbed left arm around the flagpole and swung around and threw a perfect throw to third base and got Lindell out at third; the Tigers won the game in the bottom of the 12th inning; they got into the clubhouse and Newhouser asked him how he knew where third base was; and Cramer said he just followed the tiers that hold up the stands, and when he hit #16, he let it fly; Mays catch and throw were incredible, about equal to DiMaggio's; but Cramer never got enough credit (00:05:47 to 00:13:28) Track 3 - On Johnny Evers, his temperament was the opposite of Newhouser's, he was a great friend, they used to bass fish on Lake Okeechobee; but he kept everything inside, a wonder he didn't have ulcers; never showed his anger and eventually it caught up to him; he was a fine athlete, he'd have been a better player if he would have let off steam; the only thing Newhouser ever broke were the light bulbs that lit up the tunnel to the locker room; Fred Hutchinson was very destructive, they all went the opposite way from Hutchinson; one day, Hutchinson picked up the water cooler and threw it right out in the field; they called him the "Kodiak Bear" because he came from Washington State; he used to live out in the country, and by the time he got home, the game was over and that was the end of it (00:13:28 to 00:18:02) Track 4 - On greatest day in baseball was getting in the Hall of Fame; when the commissioner of baseball, Fay Vincent, called him up and read off his record off a plaque and handed him a copy of it and shook his hand, that was the greatest moment; as a team, the last out of the '45 World Series, worked so hard and they won the pennant the last day of the season and then won the World Series the last day, he got some runs and they won, in the 9th inning, they had a man on first, and the hitter hit to the shortstop and they got a forced out at second and they were the World Champions; the other great moment was being selected for the Most Valuable Player award in the American League; he waited 31 years for the Hall of Fame induction; hardest thing for him was standing there, during his acceptance field, seeing his family, 20-25,000 people, 75-100 photographers, writers, etc., and behind you are all your peers, the others in the Hall of Fame; his family was all in a row, his wife, his two daughters, his son-in-law, sister-in-law, brother, and then his mother on the end, he had about two minutes to look out over the crowd, and he was afraid he would make a fool of himself; his mother was 95 years old, so he thanked her first, she jumped up like a cork out of a champagne bottle, and a lot of his speech was about his wife, for staying with him; he mentioned Paul Richards, his catcher, the town of Alexander; he did it all without notes; the three greatest moments were getting inducted into the Hall of Fame, winning the World Series and being named MVP (00:18:02 to 00:24:32) Track 5 - On getting a lot more mail after the Hall of Fame induction (interviewer talks about Stanley Coveleski) Newhouser goes to autograph sessions and there are no kids there; he can tell when he gets mail from kids, he signs and send them right back, but at the autograph sessions, no one under 25 years old; they get the autographs and sell them; when you're gone, it's worth even more; the big item is bats, crazy how much people spend on bats and autographs; the way the world is going now, everything has changed (interviewer talks about baseball cards) (00:24:32 to 00:28:13) Track 6 - On Ferris Fain, he was a good hitter until he kicked the bag and broke his toe; they never played together, a pesky hitter, not a lot of power but hit a lot of line drives; on having the privilege of pitching against Jimmie Foxx, Ted Williams, Lou Boudreau (tape runs out) (00:28:13 to 00:29:38)" Public Access NotePlease note that not all works are on view at all times - their availability is subject to change per the discretion of the Museum staff. 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