Travis Jackson interview
Date1987 April 30
DescriptionThree audio cassettes featuring an interview with Travis Jackson conducted by Rod Roberts on behalf of the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum on April 30, 1987 in Waldo, Arkansas.
Object numberHF-1996-0001-06
Interviewer
Roberts, Rod
Interviewee
Jackson, Travis, 1903-1987
Subject
Jackson, Travis, 1903-1987
Classificationsaudio/visual materials
Library Call NumberCTA 783
Library Call NumberCTA 784
Collection NumberBA RMA 001 Rod Roberts oral history collection
Library Call NumberCTA 782
Dimensions3 audio cassettes
TrannscriptionCassette 1 content of the interview includes: Side One -- Track 1 - Born in Waldo, Arkansas, next door to his current home. on Nov. 2, 1903. Father (William Jackson) was a transfer man, driving trucks, or horse and wagon, around town, to and from the railroad; he has two children, older daughter and a son; his son, William Travis has three boys, living in Albuquerque; he was an only child, town has always been pretty much the same, used to get more money from oil; Jackson went to Waldo High School and played baseball; couldn't field enough for a football team; played basketball, played all sports; he went to Ouachita College for three years, part of each year because he had to leave for spring training (00:00:00 to 00:05:22) Track 2 - Jackson's uncle ran a drug store in Marvel, Arkansas; when he turned 17 he was looking for a job and he started working as a soda jerk for his uncle, and played baseball; went back the next year, after four to five games, a scout from the minor league Little Rock team recruited him; his mother was against it, she was highly religious and didn't want him to play baseball on Sunday, finally she gave her consent (00:05:22 to 00:07:07) Track 3 - On parents being native to Waldo; mother's name was Etta Jackson; he played in Little Rock for two years, 1921-1922; always played shortstop; he used to play for the town team (00:07:07 to 00:08:11) Track 4 - He always knew that he was going to be a good ballplayer, when Southern Association ended in fall of 1922; they called him in and said he was going up to New York, with a pitcher; the secretary called and told them to report to the Polo Grounds, but they said they had to come get them because they were afraid to leave the hotel; every fall returned to Arkansas, every spring go to spring training (00:08:11 to 00:10:25) Track 5 - On replacing (Dave) Bancroft, the regular shortstop, people complaining to manager (John) McGraw; Bancroft had the chance to manage Boston, and so he left and Jackson took his place; Bancroft Banny, was good to him, showed him the ropes; some of the other players gave him a hard time as a rookie, until they saw that he could play (00:10:25 to 00:12:30) Track 6 - On first baseman George Kelly, a good ballplayer, Jackson had to throw to him for 12 years, so he should know; Kelly was the largest man in baseball, 6'4; on home runs and runs-batted-in, Kelly was up there with the best of them; not quite as good a percentage or fast as Bill Terry, Terry was one of the fastest big men in baseball; Jackson and Terry roomed together for several years; Kelly could tear you in two throwing the ball from first to second (00:12:30 to 00:14:29) Track 7 - On Frankie Frisch, Bancroft, Kelly, Heinie Groh and himself, that was the infield; the outfield, was Casey Stengel, Ross Youngs and Irish Meusel; Frank Snyder catching; McGraw wanted a lot of runs right up front, he had his winning ways, hard man to play for and his language wasn't great; McGraw could do whatever he wanted to, he owned half the ball club and won four pennants in a row; he couldn't manage now at all, they wouldn't put up with it, he'd have a strike on his hand before night; Jackson liked McGraw, made him captain his third year up there; a lot of people didn't like McGraw, a lot of people, especially newspaperman, didn't like Terry; everyone liked Mrs. McGraw, she used to yell at McGraw, they liked to play bridge, and would get into arguments, both cussing at each other (00:14:29 to 00:18:15) Track 8 - On Casey Stengel, being much more serious as a player because of McGraw; later on he became more colorful; he needed his mouth to be a good manager; the newspapers mis-quoted Jackson as saying that Stengel couldn't manage, but he obviously could manage, because he won eight straight pennants (00:18:15 to 00:19:39) Track 9 - On Irish and Bob Meusel; Bob had one of greatest throwing arms of any outfielder, and a little more power than Irish; both could drive in the runs for you; Bob hit the skids and died several years before Irish; Bob must have been a little bit better player than Irish, he was rather slow and got a bad arm (00:19:39 to 00:21:16) Track 10 - In 1923, won the pennant but lost the World Series; in 1922, he as in Little Rock; in 1923 he went up as a utility man, in 1924, he became the regular shortstop; on Hack Wilson, should have been put in an institution, amazing how fast he went down, he drove in 190-something runs and hit over .300 one year with the Cubs, and then next year he couldn't hit the ball out of the infield; everyone liked Hack, he was 5'8 or 9 but was all muscle; wasn't a good ball player in New York (00:21:16 to 00:24:40) Track 11 - On Rube Walberg; a good sized left-hander; Mule Watson being his own worst enemy, he had a slip-pitch back then (00:24:40 to 00:26:12) Track 12 - On pitchers having all sorts of different pitches back then, even the spitball; split fingered fastball is just a fast curve by a different name; knuckle curve breaks some but can't control it; even as good a pitcher as Burleigh Grimes would find that the spitball would get away from him (00:26:12 to 00:27:44) Track 13 - In 1924, winning the pennant but losing the World Series to Washington; ball hit a rock and bounced over (Freddie) Lindstrom's head, last game of the World Series; the year that Bill Terry joined the team from Toledo; a fair ball club; Lindstrom on third, Jackson at Short, Terry at first; McGraw wanted Terry and Kelly in the ball game so they put Kelly at second base; had a lot of turnover in center field and at second base; McGraw wanted a Jewish ballplayer to boost attendance, but couldn't find someone who fit the bill (tape runs out) (00:27:44 to 00:30:35) Side Two -- Track 1 - On Saul Solomon, (John) McGraw paid $60,000 to Indianapolis for him; put him in the first game of a double-header and he did well; second game, put someone else in the game; McGraw looked at Solomon and he was sound asleep; that night, Solomon was on the train back to Indianapolis (00:00:00 to 00:01:20) Track 2 - On McGraw not liking too many people; making Jackson captain and giving him authority on the field; McGraw chose Bill Terry to manage the club over Freddie Lindstrom; Terry was a good businessman (00:01:20 to 00:02:32) Track 3 - On Heinie Groh, a likeable little fellow, only 5'7 or 8, a little man; he faced into the pitcher, a different stance, turned right into the ball, hit right down the lines, right field or left field line (00:02:32 to 00:04:01) Track 4 - In 1925, Jackson hurt his knee for the first time running to first base in the Polo Grounds, doctors didn't know how to treat his leg, he had both knees operated on and got four more years after the operations; feel like he could have played longer if they had modern treatments; one year, his batting average was .268 but drove in 101 runs; today's shortstops don't drive in that many runs, they don't get the chance because they pull them out of the game; also broke a bone in his left knee, and then broke the other one, and he retired after the '36 World Series; he tore ligaments and cartilage in one knee and chipped a bone in the other, sliding into base in Philadelphia (00:04:01 to 00:08:07) Track 5 - On Mel Ott, coming up at age 16, a real baby face, he was ready to play in the Major Leagues, just like Jackson was ready; he could hit 35-40 home runs a year, drive in 125-130 runs; used to raise his foot up high to hit; Mel was a fine fellow; Jackson used to pull the ball towards third base when he hit, and someone told McGraw to get someone to teach Jackson to hit the ball to right field, and McGraw said he was doing well without anyone messing with him (00:08:07 to 00:10:24) Track 6 - (Jackson looking for a photo, the two of them looking at photos, on Jackson's daughter making up a scrapbook of his photos) On Rogers Hornsby, Hornsby was tough to get along with; played with him one year and they got along swell, but he was tough and outspoken; more about photos, Jackson and Bowie Kuhn; Kuhn not getting a break (00:10:24 to 00:16:13) Track 7 - On coaching and managing for the Boston Braves for 11 years; enjoyed working with the young kids, except when the ball game was over and you had to get on the bus; that was brutal; had one trip in the Northern League, traveling by station wagon to Eau Claire, WS, Grand Forks MI, Minot, ND, leave at midnight, get to town in the afternoon and play that night; the Texas League schedule was enough to kill anybody, a lot of miles to travel, San Antonio, Little Rock, Shreveport, Jackson, Michigan (00:16:13 to 00:19:31) Track 8 - Only was successful at baseball, tried to be a businessman, but everything he touched turned to ashes, but he got a pension from baseball and did better than a lot of other players; on Carl Hubbell having financial trouble, hard to believe because Hubbell always made a good salary; he and Hubbell and their wives were very close; one day when Hubbell was pitching in the Polo Grounds, and someone hit to Jackson, and he missed it, he apologized to Hubbell and Hubbell said, but look at all the ones you stopped; Hubbell did not get along with McGraw; Edd Roush was outspoken, along with Burleigh Grimes, would always speak their minds; Andy Cohen played for them for about a year and a half; always had turnover at second base and in center field (calls in his wife and son-in-law) (00:19:31 to 00:23:45) Track 9 - (Trucks going by?) On Hornsby being best second baseman (son-in-law Harold comes in, discusses meeting Bill Dickey) (00:23:45 to 00:25:29) Track 10 - More on Cohen; on Lefty O'Doul, couldn't throw at all, but was a good hitter (00:25:29 to 00:26:18) Track 11 - On Shanty Hogan, quite a character, he was a catcher, very tall, weighed 218 pounds, McGraw told him he'd give him money if he'd lose the weight by spring training; couldn't run a lick, he and Lombardi were as slow as they come, crawl to first base, but Hogan was a good catcher, couldn't throw one by him; could really get down and come up throwing, he threw so hard it would tear your hand up; some people throw a heavy ball, Jackson had a good arm, threw overhand, and threw a light ball; Terry said he could catch Jackson bare-handed; if Jackson could get to the ball, he could throw you out (00:26:18 to 00:29:19) Track 12 - On watching baseball today, the Cubs and the Braves, not much to watch; on modern shortstops catching one-handed (tape runs out) (00:29:19 to 00:30:34) Cassette 2 ccontent of the interview includes: Side One -- Track 1 - (Tape begins in the middle of comment) On differences in modern baseball, he approves of the bullpen being used more often; on third basemen being more like acrobats; larger gloves make a difference; seen games lost because the ballplayer catches the ball in the big glove and can't get it out fast enough to make a double play (00:00:00 to 00:02:25) Track 2 - On Carl Hubbell being the best pitcher he played behind; also Art Nehf, Burleigh Grimes; never had to play against Hubbell, thank goodness; on different pitchers; Garland Buckeye was in the other League; played behind Carl Mays but he was an unpleasant fellow, he finally killed a man; Roy Parmelee, had a heavy ball and threw hard; Ethan Allen, a fine fellow; Hal Schumacher, another fine young fellow, never had any children (00:02:25 to 00:06:30) Track 3 - On greatest day in baseball, biggest thrill, a hard question to answer, had lots of thrills, one Sunday afternoon in Polo Grounds, played Cincinnati a double-header; and he won two ball games with a home run; came up in 10th inning of the first game and hit a home run off of Larry French; and in the second game, hit a home run off the left-handed pitcher his first time up, and they won the game 1-0; another time, in Pittsburgh, he drove in seven runs and scored with two home runs and a triple; drove in eight runs one time in Cincinnati (00:06:30 to 00:10:15) Track 4 - On best defensive play, saw Royce Youngs running full speed, jumping for the ball, not with his glove hand, his bare hand (Jackson has trouble relating the story; truck noise) saw so many big plays (interviewer talks about Ken Griffey catch) (00:10:15 to 00:13:20) Track 5 - On best players: first baseman, Bill Terry; Hornsby at second base; Pie Traynor at third; catcher (Gabby) Hartnett; so many outfielders, Joe DiMaggio, Carl Yastrzemski, Willie Mays; and Lou Gehrig (00:13:20 to 00:16:33) Track 6 - Charlie Root being the hardest pitcher for Jackson to hit; Root just had his number, he'd go up there and go 0-4; (Bill) Terry got on his pitchers in Chicago one day, they had a player named (?) Beck who was hitting .200, and got two home runs in one day (00:16:33 to 00:18:28) Track 7 - Never wanted to be a big league manager; doesn't have the disposition, he coached in the big leagues for four years; on managing modern teams (00:18:28 to 00:19:36.8) Track 8 - On modern players making a lot of money; doesn't resent them for it; on making good money and being satisfied with what he made, he asked for a raise and got it from McGraw; after that he dealt with Terry, the manager was boss (00:19:36.8 to 00:21:20) Track 9 - On playing for Terry; hard for someone to be a player manager (00:21:20 to 00:21:49) Track 10 - On Dolf Luque, he was a good old boy, a good pitcher, he you with a slip pitch and curve ball and make you stand on your head trying to hit it, hit against him and played with him; Waite Hoyt came back to the Giants towards end of his career; never hit against George Uhle except maybe in an exhibition game; Gus Mancuso, a heck of a catcher; a bit of a speed problem (00:21:49 to 00:23:45) Track 11 - On Jackson being a pretty good runner, in spite of his bad legs; didn't steal a lot of bases; Terry didn't like them to steal; better to have the bat in his hand and swing (interviewer talks about Bill Dickey and people stealing bases, catchers having more pressure;) Jackson agrees that its harder today (00:23:45 to 00:25:55) Track 12 - On Kiddo Davis, a nice chap; Blondie Ryan took his place in '33 World Series when he couldn't play shortstop, Jackson played third; didn't have much to do with Charlie Dressen: Sleepy Paul Richards, always looked like he was going to sleep, a good catcher and a good manager; Slick Castleman (00:25:55 to 00:28:00) Track 13 - On hunting and fishing in the off season; lots of lakes nearby; hunted ducks; no deer hunting in the area; on Stuttgart, Arkansas (tape runs out) (00:28:00 to 00:30:28) Side Two -- Track 1 - (Freight train in background) On baseball experience, no regrets, had his chance; only thing he was supposed to get part of his purchase price if he was sold from Little Rock to the big leagues, if they had sold him to Cleveland, he would have gotten $6,000, but when they sold him to the Giants, they said it wasn't a sale, so he didn't get any money; he was 17 at the time; on the freight train going by (00:00:00 to 00:02:12) Track 2 - On the Hall of Fame, thought they had forgotten about him for a while; when the first list of prospects came out, he was number 17 on the list, but he kept getting pushed back; thought maybe it was because (Bill) Terry was in first; on the old-timers picking inductees (tape runs out) (00:02:12 to 00:04:07.6) Cassette 3 content of the interview includes: Side One -- Track 1 - (Picks up comment in the middle, not clear who is being discussed) On never being thrown out of a ballgame, one umpire (Bill Klem?) coming close to throwing him out; main reason players got thrown out was for language (00:00:00 to 00:01:30) Track 2 - On the strike zone not changing much; some umpires give you the high fast one, some go for a low pitch; on umpires in the big leagues being better than in the minor leagues; on adding a third umpire during his career; modern game has four umpires plus a standby (00:01:30 to 00:03:00) Track 3 - On leaving gloves on the field, a good idea to take them off, saw gloves getting kicked (00:03:00 to 00:04:00) Track 4 - On playing for two mangers, John McGraw and Bill Terry, being happier playing for Terry; being very close; sometimes telling him he was making a mistake and getting in an argument; on discussing issues with McGraw, and having him listen to you, might tell you to go to hell afterwards, but would listen to you (contains profanity) (00:04:00 to 00:05:45) Track 5 - On bill McKechnie being the best manager he ever saw; handled pitchers better than anyone he ever played with or against; most important job for a manager is to keep a club together and keep the players happy (00:05:45 to 00:06:28.8) Track 6 - On having a clown on the team; Casey Stengel was the biggest clown in baseball, (?) Randalls? Was a big clown, played for 19 years; on ballplayers having problems with drinking; Jackson played during Prohibition, so wasn't a lot of drinking; on hearing rumors about drug use (00:06:28.8 to 00:09:35) Track 7 - On how modern ballplayers spend their time, on wives going on the road; they couldn't even take their wives to spring training; his wife would bring the kids up to New York to live during the season; hard to be away from his family for so long during spring training, three months away from family; road trips used to last up to 17 days (00:09:35 to 00:11:55) Track 8 - On never thinking about doing anything other than baseball (00:11:55 to 00:12:34) Track 9 - On Jackson being a common name in the area, but not necessarily related to him; house he grew up in is gone; on the town of Waldo, never wanted to live anywhere else, once a country boy, always a country boy; gotten his share of publicity in the town, a sign on the edge of town been up for three years (interview ends) (00:12:34 to 00:14:52)Public Access NotePlease note that not all works are on view at all times - their availability is subject to change per the discretion of the Museum staff. 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